AC, Avoidance and Defensive Skills explained « Thread Started on Oct 13, 2007, 5:11pm »
Over the years, Ive found many people in EQ are in the dark about what all of the numbers on their character sheet actually mean.
What exactly is Armor Class? What do the Combat Agility and Combat Stability AAs actually do? How do avoidance and shielding fit in? If you ever wondered about any of those things then keep reading. All of that will be explained and more.
The first thing you need to know about AC is that for most toons the vast majority of the number you see displayed on your character sheet in your inventory is ineffective AC.
Each archetype, (Plate, Chain, Leather,Cloth) has a limit to the amount of AC that actually "works". That limit is called your "soft cap", and it varies between classes.
What follows is a list of the AC soft cap approximations for each archetype. In the following chart, worn AC means look at your gear and add up the AC it shows when you inspect the individual item.
Soft Caps Cloth..........= ~75 worn AC (yes its really that low) Leather......= ~100 worn AC Monk..........= ~120 worn AC (if they are under 15 stone wieght) Chain.........= ~200 worn AC Plate .........= ~300 worn AC
You may be shocked at how low those number are, I certainly was. My robe alone has 75 AC on it, so I hit my soft cap with 1 piece of gear! Everyone reading this can go check their character right now and Im sure you will see that you are all way above the softcap. Hitting the AC soft cap for your character is trivial in EQ today. So what we really want to know about is how effective is worn AC AFTER the softcap. The answer varies by class:
AC returns after the soft cap has been reached 45%: Warrior (from Devs) 33%: Knight (from Devs), Monk (reportedly equal to Knight? via Zajeer?) 23%: Cleric, Bard (via L2), BZR (rough estimate based off of parsing) 17%: BST, Ranger (BST is ~1/2 of the monk, ranger hearsay) 6%: Druid, Enc, Mag, Nec, Wiz (~1/3 of BST -- Druid was quoted as "lowest") Rogue, Shaman? Probably they are close to cleric returns.
What does that mean? Well lets use a warrior for example, and lets say that when he looks in his inventory he sees his AC displayed as 1000, this is called displayed AC for future reference. Displayed AC adds up your worn AC and mulitiples it by 1.65.
1000ac / 1.65 = 600 worn AC.
So if this particular warrior added up all the AC listed on his gear it would be about 600, I rounded these values to make it a bit easier to work with. Now remember Warrior are a plate class with a soft cap of about 300.
600 worn AC = 300 under the cap AC + 300 over the cap AC. 300 over the cap AC = 300 * 45% = 135 effective AC. 300 under the cap AC + 135 effective over the cap AC = 435 REAL AC
So in review a warrior that looks in his inventory and sees 1000ac displayed up at the top, really only has 435 REAL AC!Using the same formula for a Ranger that has 1000 displayed AC you get this:
1000 displayed AC= 600 worn AC = 200 under the cap + 68 effective AC = 268 REAL AC!
So two completely different classes that have the same number displayed in the AC catagory of their inventory have VASTLY different real AC!
Ok now I hope you can understand everything up until this point because there one more piece of the AC puzzle I need to explain now and that is Shields.
The truth about Shields
If you have a shield in your secondary slot, ALL of the AC on that shield counts as "under the cap AC". That means if you have a shield with 100AC you get ALL 100 AC from it, regardless of what class you are, or what return over the cap your class gets!!!
Weapons with AC on them in the secondary slot dont count, neither do orbs, lanterns, totems etc. It must be an actual shield to get the raw AC bonus.
Take me for example, im a cloth wearer with an AC softcap of 75 BUT I use a shield+aug that gives me 110ac. That means I get more AC from my shield alone than all of my other gear combined!!!
Even if you dont understand any of that it simplifies down to this: If you use a shield, ignore every stat on that shield except AC. A shield with 100ac and no HPs is far better than a shield with 500hps and no AC, yes its that dramatic.
Here is some raw parsed data that illustrates the effectiveness of shield AC.
2504ac no shield 308.6 dps average hit 618.1
2513ac 100ac shield 287.9 dps average hit 567.90
2512ac 175ac shield 270.5 dps average hit 537.4
3659ac 175ac shield 262.8 dps average hit 519.9
The test subject was an INT caster, tank returns on AC are much better of course. Still that parse clearly shows just how effective a shield can be.
CA/CS
Another VERY important piece of the puzzle is Combat Stability and Combat Agility. Formerly both of these AAs were thought to increase your AC softcap, but in a recent post a Dev revealed that CA increases your avoidance, and CS increases your softcap.
Here is the table that was released by the devs shortly after the Secrets of Faydwer expansion was released:
The rest of your defensive skills are failrly easy to assess by looking at the following chart. Basically if you are evaluating gear and you want to know how valuable +10 avoidance is for example, this chart gives you approximately how many HPs those skills are worth in terms of defensive survivability.
Defensive value of combat skill displayed in equivalent HPs Improved Dodge V.......660 HPe Improved Dodge IV......530 HPe Improved Dodge III......400 HPe +5 Avoidance.............300 HPe Improved Dodge II......260 HPe 10 shield AC...............250 HPe Improved Dodge I .......130 HPe 8% dodge skill ...........100 HPe 1% shielding.................80 HPe 10 STA ......................16 HPe 10 normal AC*..............13 HPe 10 AGI..........................8 HPe 10 HP..........................10 HPe *Varies by class, 13 hps is the value for cloth wearers.
Take a look at how important Shield AC is. If you have 100 shield AC that is the defensive equivalent of ~2500 hps! You may also notice that both Shielding and Avoidance have excellent defensive effectiveness, and should be highly valued when evaluating gear.
It should be noted that Avoidance is hard capped at 100 and Shielding is hard capped at 35%. You wont get any defensive value out of those stats at all if you go over the hard caps.
Well that about covers it. I realize that this all may seem very complicated, but its still very important to understand exactly how EQ works so that you can acurately calculate your characters defensive abilities.
Re: AC, Avoidance and Defensive Skills explained « Reply #5 on Oct 23, 2007, 8:39pm »
amazing post, this is fantastic. So basically, I have been ignoring ac to a large extent when getting equip and augs, and mostly focusing on HP. Which, if your not a tank, is probably a good strategy in general. ( except for your shield )
Now my question is, for my war, who is 60, when if ever is it best for me to use a shield? can the bash from a shield ever compete with the aggro from an offhand weapon that has anger augs? Almost all wars i see always dual wield, and pallies and sk love to carry a shield, i guess this is cause knights have no aggro issues, they use there spells to pull great aggro.
But what about rogues? I guess it might make sense to put up a shield option in my bandolier. and hit that bandolier button if i pull aggro, and switch back when i loose aggro. just a thought.
Re: AC, Avoidance and Defensive Skills explained « Reply #6 on Oct 24, 2007, 6:51am »
Quote:
Now my question is, for my war, who is 60, when if ever is it best for me to use a shield? can the bash from a shield ever compete with the aggro from an offhand weapon that has anger augs? Almost all wars i see always dual wield, and pallies and sk love to carry a shield, i guess this is cause knights have no aggro issues, they use there spells to pull great aggro.
As a warrior for the most part you want to do max dps in normal grouping situations, but you should absolutely have a very high AC shield bandoliered for utility situation where you need the extra below the cap AC.
Theres almost no reason for a knight to use a 2hander when tanking since as you pointed out they generate agrro from spells, and knights dps is basically pathetic even with a 2hander. Knights hold agro very well and need that shield to make up for their slightly inferior return after the cap. Regardless of class, a tank wants to do just enough dps to effectively hold aggro, then focus on defense. That way the rest of the group can do max DPS and you are as easy on healer mana as possible.
Quote:
But what about rogues? I guess it might make sense to put up a shield option in my bandolier. and hit that bandolier button if i pull aggro, and switch back when i loose aggro. just a thought.
Not sure how feasible that would be but if you have a fast reaction time i suppose that would be useful...
Re: AC, Avoidance and Defensive Skills explained « Reply #7 on Oct 24, 2007, 3:00pm »
Hey, this info about shield AC making such a difference suggests that AC aug farming for members in the guild who carry a shield would be a great idea. The best ac aug for shield that I know if that is all/all is Jewel of the Stalwart ( ac 30 ), in valdeholm, off Royal Cryptguard Zerakt. He is level 79, and i believe one groupable, though I have never done him.
And i believe one of the best all/all shields is the Battered Shield of the Fallen Guard, which many already have. its from frostcrypt. Viz has one. That is very one group farmable also i believe.
Re: AC, Avoidance and Defensive Skills explained « Reply #8 on Oct 24, 2007, 3:12pm »
Aye, the 30ac 60hp aug from AG off the Argil Oppressor is an excellent choice for anyone using a shield. In fact its the best shield aug in the game besides the BiC aug.
Re: AC, Avoidance and Defensive Skills explained « Reply #11 on Dec 28, 2007, 3:29pm »
Interesting, it seems like up to ca8, and cs8, your getting a lot of bang for your buck. after that I should probably focus, for my druid, on aa that makes my druid a better healer. ( or shield block aa )
Now if you consider raising your soft cap by 1ac( through cs aa ), to be the same value as raising your shield ac by 1, then:
ca that gives 1 pt avoidance increase gives you 60HPe. ( 5pts avoid = 300HPe ) cs that gives 1 pt soft cap ac equivilant gives you 25HPe. ( 10 shield ac = 250HPe )
*This assumes that evasion and avoidance are the same thing, is this true? CA values are listed in units of evasion, if this is not avoidance then I have no idea what it means.
so, how much HPe does each level of ca and cs give you? based on the above, we get boosts from CA of 180 hp per level right off, ( there is a 300hpe jump in there ) and for most of the levels of CA, you get 120HPe. For the last few levels, its 60HPe What about CS? that is around 75HPe early on, and later levels give you 50HPe. The last levels give you only 25HPe equivalent!!
So getting CA and CS up to around level 8 should make a big difference, with CA helping more then CS. but after that you may want to look at other aa that help your class. For my druid that would be stuff like improved healing/mana aa, quicker evac, stuff that boosts my primary role in groups as healer/evacer.
Re: AC, Avoidance and Defensive Skills explained « Reply #12 on Dec 28, 2007, 10:13pm »
Yup, you nailed it Relg. CA and CS are great but suffer serious diminishing returns after rank 8. The Shield block aa is the single best defensive AA line we have available for the AA points it costs. The 3 ranks net you a 5% incoming damage reduction! I need to add the shield block numbers into the guide as well...good call Fui!
PS - Check out the enchanter homepage: therunes.net
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